Curse

ruk1a · May 15, 2010, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Wouldn't it be smart to take some resources from GW2 and fix GW1 so your loyal fans will even want to play GW2 in the first place? Or is ArenaNet so confident that GW2 is going to blow up and be extremely popular that the fans don't even matter at all..

It's like how blizzard is currently updating Diablo 2 for the sake of future Diablo 3, they're clever.

A lot of us think that GW2 will have the same problems as GW1 in regards to hacking and botting. It's sad to say but if this is true, what is the point of playing GW2 at all?

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 15, 2010, 10:36 PM // 22:36

I dont think they need to. I would love for them to (then again, I dont cause I want GW2 to be good - excellent on release) but they dont need to. A lot of the people complaining about GW atm will still get GW2 for a look, there will be those who love GW which are going to probably hate GW2, and I would say there will be quite a few new ones coming in that stayed away from GW cause of things like constant instances and lack of Z-Axis (come on, jumping is overrated...)

In short, while they will share the the same lore and all that, I see GW2 as being a different beast to GW1, thus maintaining the current game will have no impact on the player base for GW2.

StormDragonZ · May 15, 2010, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Rather than saying "what ArenaNet is thinking", you should be pondering "what NCSoft is demanding".

As of right now, if GW2 does have the same bugs/problems, then I wont play it. Right now, we know little about GW2 that speculation is 80%+ of all known information.

What ArenaNet should have done is speak up about what they plan to do and not pretend we wouldn't understand any changed plans much earlier, but of course, that's in the past now. Some of us do understand GO RED ENGINE can happen and things can change.

Personally, the only thing worth doing in Guild Wars now, even for new players, is work on filling out the Hall of Monuments. Any new content is welcomed, but besides "having fun" which some people fail to understand at times, the current state of GW1 is title grinding and overall completion/personal fulfillment.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 15, 2010, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

Personally, the only thing worth doing in Guild Wars now, even for new players, is work on filling out the Hall of Monuments. Any new content is welcomed, but besides "having fun" which some people fail to understand at times, the current state of GW1 is title grinding and overall completion/personal fulfillment.

Even then there is a good chance most of the HoM stuff will be their for show and not anything usable. I can see them allowing the D/T weapons and elite armours being used as skins without any bonuses, but the way things are very little if anything of the rest seems applicable to the new game

ruk1a · May 15, 2010, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

Rather than saying "what ArenaNet is thinking", you should be pondering "what NCSoft is demanding".

As of right now, if GW2 does have the same bugs/problems, then I wont play it. Right now, we know little about GW2 that speculation is 80%+ of all known information.

What ArenaNet should have done is speak up about what they plan to do and not pretend we wouldn't understand any changed plans much earlier, but of course, that's in the past now. Some of us do understand GO RED ENGINE can happen and things can change.

Personally, the only thing worth doing in Guild Wars now, even for new players, is work on filling out the Hall of Monuments. Any new content is welcomed, but besides "having fun" which some people fail to understand at times, the current state of GW1 is title grinding and overall completion/personal fulfillment.

In it's current state yes... all my fun came from pvp, that has been ruined by botters. I would kill to be able to play guild wars again without being frustrated every time I queue. Really.. it's pathetic, I don't enjoy ANY other MMO and this is what I'm faced with. QQ less and wait for GW2. /endqq

Ninja Ninja · May 15, 2010, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

I dont think they need to. I would love for them to (then again, I dont cause I want GW2 to be good - excellent on release) but they dont need to. A lot of the people complaining about GW atm will still get GW2 for a look, there will be those who love GW which are going to probably hate GW2,

People aren't asking for rocket science here, there asking them to address a botting problem that will carry over to gw2, any fix they make towards the bots can then be applied to gw2 hacker prevention so its not a waste of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

and I would say there will be quite a few new ones coming in that stayed away from GW cause of things like constant instances and lack of Z-Axis (come on, jumping is overrated...)

I see the Z-Axis as a negative, I liked using the click to move to get around but now we'll be forced to played WoW style.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

In short, while they will share the the same lore and all that, I see GW2 as being a different beast to GW1, thus maintaining the current game will have no impact on the player base for GW2.

Turning away the market of the gw1 population is a bad business move, I'm not sure what game population your expecting to walk away from the games there already playing to go pick up gw2. They might as well start calling it AoC 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

Personally, the only thing worth doing in Guild Wars now, even for new players, is work on filling out the Hall of Monuments. Any new content is welcomed, but besides "having fun" which some people fail to understand at times, the current state of GW1 is title grinding and overall completion/personal fulfillment.

You do realize there's a massive population of botters making any HoM achievement worthless, at this point if there going to make the HoM achievements worthless then they might as well stop working on them and start coming back to gw1 and fix things or work on something different in gw2.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 15, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primary Assassin

In it's current state yes... all my fun came from pvp, that has been ruined by botters. I would kill to be able to play guild wars again without being frustrated every time I queue. Really.. it's pathetic, I don't enjoy ANY other MMO and this is what I'm faced with. QQ less and wait for GW2. /endqq

Yeah, I guess you will have to wait for GW2. at the moment I think Anet have kinda given up on PvP and are just focusing on some stuff for the lore junkies, given how hard it is to balance the PvP game. Also, given that GW2 is probably 7 - 10 months away...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

People aren't asking for rocket science here, there asking them to address a botting problem that will carry over to gw2, any fix they make towards the bots can then be applied to gw2 hacker prevention so its not a waste of time.

Besides the gameplay aspect, this is another reason why I see GW2 as being a different beast to GW: they have gone back and started from scratch. They probably do know the faults and have fixed them along the way for GW2, and that is if they were their in the first place since they have built a whole new engine for the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

I see the Z-Axis as a negative, I liked using the click to move to get around but now we'll be forced to played WoW style.

Yeah, I prefer the point and click too. I dont exactly see the addition of a Z-axis as being a negative, but to me it is just a meh addition, like it isnt going to increase my gameplay 10 fold. But the reason I mentioned it is one of the reasons a guy I work with (a WoW player) wont play GW is cause you cant jump. Of course I raised my eyebrows at him like 'what a lame excuse', but there are those kinds of people out there which may actually give GW2 a chance cause of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

Turning away the market of the gw1 population is a bad business move, I'm not sure what game population your expecting to walk away from the games there already playing to go pick up gw2. They might as well start calling it AoC 2.

For the first part of this, you are assuming hardcore game loyalty. While it may work for some of them (getting narked off so much they wont come back), for the most they would give GW2 a try. As for those coming in, I wouldnt give firm figures or anything, but I can see some walking away when they see a decent game without subs. one of the main reasons I dont play WoW is because of it being sub-based. (the other, for the record, is cause it looks a bit too cartoony for my liking

)

Martin Alvito · May 15, 2010, 11:33 PM // 23:33

I've always felt that employing a half-dozen to dozen extra staff dedicated to maintaining existing customer relationships with GW1 support would be a good business move for ANet and NCSoft. At $50 a game sold via the online store (keeping all of the revenue), retaining a relatively small number of existing customers that would otherwise be lost would turn a profit on that investment. That doesn't even take into account sales of expansions and paid DLC.

NCSoft is going to burn through millions of dollars marketing GW2. I fail to see how a few television commercials > keeping your existing player base happy with you. Word of mouth and reputation are gold in this business.

Obviously, someone with decision-making authority at NCSoft does not agree with me. Either that person does not think that their support record will significantly influence GW2 sales (which is idiocy), the company's compensation structure is rewarding short-term thinking, or someone has an extremely naive view about the ability of television advertising to attract new customers to a game.

majoho · May 15, 2010, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primary Assassin

It's like how blizzard is currently updating Diablo 2 for the sake of future Diablo 3, they're clever.

You should have linked to something because I don't know what Blizzard did, if it's just a patch like they make every 2 years or so now I don't see it as anything speicial.

Quote:

A lot of us think that GW2 will have the same problems as GW1 in regards to hacking and botting.

As far as I know no one knows how the GW2 client will work so why worry now?

own age myname · May 15, 2010, 11:58 PM // 23:58

You're comparing apples to oranges. GW2 is going to be a different monster. If ANet brings back people to GW1, that'll just delay development of GW2. GW1 isn't selling as many boxes as it used to, and bring back more on the live team isn't going to help any.

If you are really unhappy with the way GW1 is going that it will make you not buy GW2; well some other MMO player will take your place. GW2 is going to capture an audience, and it's going to be big. But, this is assuming ANet actually does what they say they are going to do (which I've had no problem with before, besides skill balances...)

Ninja Ninja · May 16, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Besides the gameplay aspect, this is another reason why I see GW2 as being a different beast to GW: they have gone back and started from scratch. They probably do know the faults and have fixed them along the way for GW2, and that is if they were their in the first place since they have built a whole new engine for the game.

Like I said any fix they make to hacker prevention wouldn't be too complicated to apply to gw1, unless they have a plan to address it before gw2 release then its going to be a problem. GW2 will have more variables for a bot but I have no doubt they will only see it as a challenge especially seeing this as a new gen game that's supposed to last a while.
There excuse for botting prevention in gw2 will probably just be the event system where things in areas are changing which I can still see it being botted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

But the reason I mentioned it is one of the reasons a guy I work with (a WoW player) wont play GW is cause you cant jump. Of course I raised my eyebrows at him like 'what a lame excuse', but there are those kinds of people out there which may actually give GW2 a chance cause of it.

I also currently play a game called sun online you can click to move and jump.
Jumping in an mmorpg is fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

For the first part of this, you are assuming hardcore game loyalty. While it may work for some of them (getting narked off so much they wont come back), for the most they would give GW2 a try. As for those coming in, I wouldnt give firm figures or anything, but I can see some walking away when they see a decent game without subs. one of the main reasons I dont play WoW is because of it being sub-based. (the other, for the record, is cause it looks a bit too cartoony for my liking

)

I can only speak for myself and I for one won't buy gw2 till I hear they have preventions in place to get rid or cripple botting. Whats the point of playing gw2 pvp when a bot can do it better?

Being honest the only reason why I bought gw was because of the graphics and the only reason I'm here now is because I've been here for so long, if anet wants to make gw1 achievements worthless I will have no problem moving to a game which has the same if not better graphics with all the next gen games coming.

own age myname · May 16, 2010, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

I can only speak for myself and I for one won't buy gw2 till I hear they have preventions in place to get rid or cripple botting. Whats the point of playing gw2 pvp when a bot can do it better?

Ya, but name another MMO that's relatively popular that has the low number of bots GW1 has (seriously, Aion and WoW, for example, bots run rampant). It's going to be even better for GW2 because:

1. They are going to actually have a full live team. Not a small 3/4 person team. Our small GW1 live team is trying to: make content, do skill balanced, fix bugs, and do everything else. With how fasts bots advance, it's hard for such a small team to drop everything to chase bots. But, I do agree, bots are annoying, but they are in every MMO sadly.
2. You can try to deny it, but the event system will stop botting to an extent, with random variables in these events I don't see how a bot could do these. Events sound like a huge portion of the game, and are going to be a good source of income.
3. There won't be no mindless farms, because your skillbar is decided by your weapons. So, gl bots on farming?

But, that's all from a PvE perspective. We don't know too much about the PvP (there's not even a lot of PvE info) to speculate on how bots would work.

But, w/e, you'll probably pick my post apart, and I'm not a good arguer so meh

Ninja Ninja · May 16, 2010, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

You're comparing apples to oranges. GW2 is going to be a different monster. If ANet brings back people to GW1, that'll just delay development of GW2. GW1 isn't selling as many boxes as it used to, and bring back more on the live team isn't going to help any.

If you are really unhappy with the way GW1 is going that it will make you not buy GW2; well some other MMO player will take your place. GW2 is going to capture an audience, and it's going to be big. But, this is assuming ANet actually does what they say they are going to do (which I've had no problem with before, besides skill balances...)

There's no apples or oranges this all comes from the same tree, people are upset with gw1 because of the botting a problem you fail to see that it will carry over. Unless your going to like playing a game where bots can do everything better than you with none of the effort than by all means enjoy.
You have don't have to worry about the skill updates in gw2 they made the builds so retard easy that there's little for customization.

snaek · May 16, 2010, 12:17 AM // 00:17

leave the bot discussion in the bot thread plz...

back on topic, i think the op already answered his own question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by primary assassin

ArenaNet [is] so confident that GW2 is going to blow up and be extremely popular that the fans don't even matter at all

imo any decision made in terms of gw1 development i think will be based on if it will make any money from gw1--either through campaign purchases, or microtransaction purchases--and not based on if it will sell copies of gw2.

own age myname · May 16, 2010, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

There's no apples or oranges this all comes from the same tree, people are upset with gw1 because of the botting a problem you fail to see that it will carry over. Unless your going to like playing a game where bots can do everything better than you with none of the effort than by all means enjoy.
You have don't have to worry about the skill updates in gw2 they made the builds so retard easy that there's little for customization.

Please explain how it will carry over? Bots don't have brains, they are just lines of script. If you don't know already, GW2's PvP is going to be about using brains, not Build Wars. Explain to me how a bot will situate itself in an environment that's ever-changing as the battle goes on. Especially with the fact you will now be able to have more then 1 skillset with you.

Ninja Ninja · May 16, 2010, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Ya, but name another MMO that's relatively popular that has the low number of bots GW1 has (seriously, Aion and WoW, for example, bots run rampant). It's going to be even better for GW2 because:

GW is coming up on a 5 year+ age there's been many innovative botting preventions created in that time window which would interesting if gw will get up to date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

1. They are going to actually have a full live team. Not a small 3/4 person team.

That was a mistake they made from the beginning look to Martin Alvito's post for an explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

2. You can try to deny it, but the event system will stop botting to an extent, with random variables in these events I don't see how a bot could do these. Events sound like a huge portion of the game, and are going to be a good source of income.

It sure sounds big but its still a limited amount of variables depending on the area your in too, people can search through the gw dat file and know all the variables and prepare for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

3. There won't be no mindless farms, because your skillbar is decided by your weapons. So, gl bots on farming?

It suddenly became complicated to choose a weapon? lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

But, w/e, you'll probably pick my post apart, and I'm not a good arguer so meh

Its not about arguing its looking at different knowledge of the game.

Ninja Ninja · May 16, 2010, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Please explain how it will carry over? Bots don't have brains, they are just lines of script. If you don't know already, GW2's PvP is going to be about using brains, not Build Wars. Explain to me how a bot will situate itself in an environment that's ever-changing as the battle goes on. Especially with the fact you will now be able to have more then 1 skillset with you.

lol news flash the people that run pvp bots are players at there keyboard so they can counter anything and have the reflex of a ninja using there botting program whenever they choose to turn it on.

own age myname · May 16, 2010, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

GW is coming up on a 5 year+ age there's been many innovative botting preventions created in that time window which would interesting if gw will get up to date.

Again, with the little Live Team, they can't. It's a matter of resources. If they take back people from GW2, it'll make people waiting for GW2 angry. But, when they are leaving the employees where they are suppose to be, some other people want them to work on GW1, when it isn't their job to. It's a double-edged sword for them. And, frankly, I'd side with the people who are waiting for GW2, because atleast they care about ANet.

Basically, it comes down to NCSoft/ANet not wanting to hire more people for GW1...

Quote:

That was a mistake they made from the beginning look to Martin Alvito's post for an explanation.

Yep, I do wish they have a very nice and fully working Live Team.

Quote:

It sure sounds big but its still a limited amount of variables depending on the area your in too, people can search through the gw dat file and know all the variables and prepare for them.

I don't know how bots work to much, as I've never have touched one and never will. But, I'm sure they are pretty advanced and could do that. It'll be up to Anet to set up barriers for bots. They did it for GW1 for years, until they took people off the teams and started on GW2.

Quote:

It suddenly became complicated to choose a weapon? lol

Because some daggers are going to have Shadow Form on the preset^^?

Quote:

Its not about arguing its looking at different knowledge of the game.

Fair enough.

Age · May 16, 2010, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I am not sure what OP is getting at but it would be nice to see some of the features added to GW.It would be nice to see persistent areas as well as z xis even if it means taking down the server rebuilding the game engine.I would more or less still play GW as I am not liking to what I am hearing about GW2.

Ninja Ninja · May 16, 2010, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Again, with the little Live Team, they can't. It's a matter of resources. If they take back people from GW2, it'll make people waiting for GW2 angry. But, when they are leaving the employees where they are suppose to be, some other people want them to work on GW1, when it isn't their job to. It's a double-edged sword for them. And, frankly, I'd side with the people who are waiting for GW2, because atleast they care about ANet.

People that have never dealt with the company anet cares about them? Stop with the white knighting, gw has its little team because they think that's sufficient in running the game which is incredible proven wrong with the amount of botting without any response to even show the reports have sunk into there heads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

I don't know how bots work to much, as I've never have touched one and never will. But, I'm sure they are pretty advanced and could do that. It'll be up to Anet to set up barriers for bots. They did it for GW1 for years, until they took people off the teams and started on GW2.

So nothing but hope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Because some daggers are going to have Shadow Form on the preset^^?

What? Daggers have skills made for a dagger and they will be the same skills every time, shadow form would count as something else if they ever considered bringing the broken skill to gw2
Putting a build on and then weapon then run a bot, not hard.